Exploring Architecture and AI: A Conversation with David Longpre

In this episode of the podcast, Matt Brennan and David Longpre discuss various aspects of architecture, including the importance of networking, the housing crisis in Vancouver, and the role of AI in the industry. David shares insights about his architectural firm, the challenges of densification, and the exciting developments in his new office. The conversation also touches on the future of architecture and how AI can be integrated as a tool rather than a replacement for human creativity. In this conversation, Matt Brennan and David Longpre discuss the evolving landscape of architecture and design, particularly in relation to the impact of AI on graphic design, the challenges of standardized housing design, and the importance of customization in home building. They emphasize the need for effective communication and collaboration between architects and contractors to ensure successful project outcomes. David shares insights on the role of contractors in the design process and the necessity of adapting to the unique characteristics of each site. The discussion highlights the balance between technology and craftsmanship in the architectural field.

Takeaways

• Networking at conferences can lead to valuable connections.
• Densification is a necessary response to housing crises.
• Vancouver's architectural landscape is evolving with new regulations.
• AI should be viewed as a tool to enhance productivity.
• Effective communication is crucial in architecture.
• The design process requires human creativity and insight.
• Architects must adapt to technological advancements.
• Understanding the value architects bring is essential for clients.
• The future of architecture will involve more AI integration.
• Copyright issues surrounding AI-generated content need to be addressed. AI is transforming the graphic design industry, posing challenges for artists.
• Standardized housing designs may not effectively reduce costs due to municipal fees.
• Customization in home design is essential for meeting individual needs.
• Effective communication between architects and contractors is crucial for project success.
• Involving contractors early in the design process can prevent issues later on.
• Architectural drawings should prioritize clarity for contractors over artistic expression.
• The relationship between architects and contractors needs to be collaborative, not adversarial.
• Understanding the unique characteristics of each site is vital in architecture.
• Architects should act as guides for clients, helping them navigate the design process.
• The construction industry requires a balance between technology and traditional craftsmanship.

Sound Bites
"Densification is a good thing."
"It's very Japanese inspired."
"AI is a tool, not here to replace people."
"AI is not here to take over the profession."
"What value do architects bring?"
"Who owns the copyright with AI?"
"Communication is key to preventing issues."
"We always go with solutions, not problems."

Chapters
00:00 - Introduction to the Podcast and Guests
05:04 - The Importance of Networking and Conferences
09:56 - Densification and Housing Crisis in Vancouver
15:01 - David's Architectural Firm and Office Development
19:59 - The Role of AI in Architecture
25:14 - Future of Architecture and AI Integration
24:06 - Challenges in Standardized H

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Transcript

0:00

Mixed views, CA, AI, and we have a guest. Let's get started.[MUSIC] Welcome to What the RFI. I'm Matt Brennan, and this is the podcast all about CA from a architectural and a project coordinator's perspective. Today, I share the stage with a special guest, David Long-Pricil. David, say hi and let's talk a little bit about you. Hi, thanks, Matt. It's nice to be on the show. I don't know where to start really other than around my own firm, Long-Prici Architecture, I hear in Vancouver, BC. We started in 2022, so still relatively young firm. Matt and I met at Buildx, I believe in last year, randomly eating lunch together. There was no seats available. It was one of those random encounters at Buildx. It was very special because it was Valentine's Day. Matt. What is it? Can you remember?[LAUGHTER] I loved it. It was a lot of fun. No, that's the thing with all these conferences you go to, and you meet friends and just engaging. I really did value our conversation that day. I really enjoyed it. I can't remember the exact details, but it was a nice lunch. Thanks for joining me on my special day. Anyways. It was interesting because I had just started the firm not that long ago. It was interesting talking to someone who has experienced yourself being in an industry as long as you were, and then just having a really dynamic conversation. You're trying to sell me on something after. Exactly. I was in my new transition. We were both transitioning at the same time. I just made my big move to part three and going from the other side of the fence and trying to work that, but at the same time, just trying to be who I was in the industry in that respect. One thing with all these conferences, going to the conference, I get my AIBC credits like that. I actually put my numbers in it. I think I've checked from some of the stuff that's been auto, but I've got a whole bunch of stuff I got a manual input. I think I'm almost done my credits. I just need two indigenous classes and then we're good to go. Yeah. I just got audited for my credits. I got one of the random audits recently, but it's not hard getting your credits if you just go to these events. Actually, take the courses you're interested in. But all the enough, I don't find the build X1s very good. It's very boring. The architecture ones are always boring. I don't know why architects have to always be so boring all the time, but I love the interior design show better. Those conferences seem to be a little bit more dynamic. Their interior designers seem to think about the world a little differently than us. I really appreciated, there was a really great designer from Gensler out of New York, and how she was dealing with experiential architecture and stuff, which is all science world where you have exhibits, but she's doing it for the ultra rich. It's fascinating to see the way they see design so much differently than some of my colleagues. I really appreciate the interior design ones way more, I find they're a lot more fun. That's cool. Well, attention to the detail too. I used to work for Chill Interiors, Corinnaire, all the hotels and everything. My goodness, I was always, and still today, I follow Adele and Paul and on LinkedIn and all that, and they see the awards they get, because it was every attention to detail. That's something that level. But at the same time, they have a client that goes, spend money. Just spend the money to make it good. That's what makes it a different game changer. Yeah, it's hard. Obviously, it's hard when you start out on your own firm, because you basically have to restart your career over on smaller projects again, like what you did when you're an intern, and then work your way up while you're building firm. But we always dream of those unlimited budgets. I hear about it. I'm in the right city for it, but I'm still waiting for that client once. It gives me the whole purse to go spend. It didn't do it. It'll come. It'll come. It's all connections, network, and all that. Well, right now with your firm, what are you guys focusing on today? We can see Mike in the background there working on over multiplex projects. If listeners don't know, across North America, all the cities are having a housing crisis. Not really big news, but the way our government is really responding to it is justification, which I think is a good thing. I forget the acronym for Levis, SMU, or something. I can't remember what the full acronym of the BC government implemented, but it got rid of all the single families, essentially allowing multiplex, which is duplexes, triplexes, quadplexes, or six units on one single family lot. I had a lot of experience with that. I'm a former employer of farmworks. We did a lot of character house and heritage conversions. That was the precursor to multiplex in Vancouver. That was saving the existing character house and then getting six units out of the site. It was a retention program to make sure that heritage is kept. Unfortunately, with the new multiplex rules, it's now allowed all these heritage homes to be torn down. I still think there needs to be some revisiting the bylaws to protect our heritage, but it is what it is right now. I have a lot of experience doing that. That's what really led me down, opening up this firm, because I knew multiplex was going to be a huge thing. I knew that justification had to happen. I always say Vancouver is like a mini or a young Tokyo. It's bordered by the mountains, it's bordered by the ocean. It's such a young country, or such a young country, but the densification, there's nowhere else to go anymore. The only way to do it is to densify and get more buildings. A lot of people will be shocked that when they take the image of Tokyo, it's the entire population of Canada, one city, and that isn't achieved by skyscrapers. It's achieved by medium density, three to four storey townhouses everywhere. If you want to fit a lot more people in a small space, that's really where it needs to go. That's why you keep hearing the conversations with the missing middle a lot more, because it is the middle, a Howard House everybody. Do you find, well, being downtown Vancouver, again, we always see that naturally. There's a couple of San Diego family, Doolian Lots. They get consolidated into a single one, and then from there, they just build up. Basically, like you said, to densify, because we're not in urban, we can't sprawl out where we've reached our somewhat maximum point. Houston, Texas, where they just keep going out, or like Regina, or something like that. You can't keep going out, you're limited to what your footprints are. Yeah. Well, it's interesting coming, because I did my master's degree in Calgary, and I came up in Calgary Learning Architecture. To that city, if you take the same footprint of Calgary, and you overlay it over, it's the same, almost the same size as Tokyo. I could be wrong, but it's very, the footprint of Calgary is ginormous, if you actually look at it. Right. And yet, it still has a population of like, I don't know, it's like 1.3 million or something, which is crazy. That is crazy. Canadians were really spoiled with space, but somehow we saw the housing crisis. So, it's kind of catch-22, especially in Vancouver, I get it, but I don't get it in other parts of the country. So, it's interesting to think about. Exactly. And I want to come back to that point when we talked about standardized plans, but I guess, like you guys being the heart of downtown, I guess one exciting project you are working on is your own brand new office as well. How is it coming along? Good. It's with CoLab management, give them a shout out, but they're building it right now. It seems like the universe is kind of aligned in the best way. Right now, we're in an officer tower with religious, just renting a single office, but it's too small, as you can see. But it doesn't feel kind of real yet, but I know that office is actually having a real space that's yours with your logo on the wall. I'm really excited for that moment to walk and see it. And it's very Japanese inspired. In the French, a lot of my training and stuff is inspired by Japan. I've lived there, worked there. So, you can a lot of the influence, I can't, it's part of me now. So I can't let it go. So the beginning of the office will have the Japanese kind of aesthetic. It opens up into more of a English manner type style with Persian rocks and antiques. I really value the history. I really like heritage. So I'm always trying to bring that in somewhere. And it is in a heritage building in Gastown. Very cool. Exposed timber, ceiling, all that kind of stuff. Bridget's brick in my office, which I actually love. Barf is just... I worked out. It was one of my first jobs. The first job in Vancouver was in downtown. I think it was like 421 right on the street. It was kind of almost at the three corners. Anyways, that's so cool. I hear that's coming along. Yeah. And Gastown has totally changed over the years as well. Yes. As anyone knows, Vancouver, downtown Eastside is very infamous for a reason. With all the drug issues and homelessness that is in the area, there's a lot of crime. And Gastown is unfortunately, it's the number one tourist destination in the city with the cruise ship terminal right there. Everyone goes down to Gastown to see the gas, the steam flock. But two streets over, you have the poorest people in the country. So it's quite the juxtaposition, the city. But it is up and coming. The city is doing a good job. They shut down the water street there to be pedestrian only in summer. And that really brought a lot of life into the space. Mayor Ken Sim, he ran on bringing more police and stuff into the area. So it has cleaned up quite a bit. I've noticed a huge improvement. And it will become an up and coming neighborhood eventually. But that's why I kind of sneak in, get a good lease deal now. And then when it comes up, maybe I'll be coming the next five years. We'll still be there hopefully. Yeah. Yeah, no kidding. No, very cool. Always exciting. And one thing too, you really humble on LinkedIn about the AI. But when I took a look at it, coming on the website and just got a refresher to see where you guys were at. I like the AI laboratory. And you have been playing with AI, which is really exciting. And how are you finding it? How is it changing the way that you do your business day to day? It's not how you might think. I know everyone in the industry is quite scared. And there's a lot of fear that comes with technology. But my generation, we were pre-internet and after internet, being millennials. We knew time before and after, using with Xers. But we quickly adapted to that and we used it as a tool. I do think AI is a tool. It's not here to replace people. Thank you. Yeah. It's especially our profession. It's not going to replace our seal. It's not going to replace liability. No one's going to trust a computer to spend, when they're spending $2 to $3 million on the home, or something, they're not going to trust an AI to do it. But they're going to want that personal touch. Yeah. This is when you're spending that much money, it's always going to be that way. Arctex is the oldest profession in the book, right out there since Caves. So we're not going anywhere. No, and I agree. It is a tool. I compare it to even think of the days of Revit, right? That was a change, right? When I was a Reno C Negron architect downtown, when Revit came into a mix, we went from 10 users on AutoCAD, where we could scale it down to two. Now, it doesn't mean we fired and laid everyone off. They just, we took on more work, and we became more efficient. And I think that's the way AI, how you utilize it as well. I use it daily for a few things. It does my show notes from this. If I do a demo recording, it puts cold notes together. Apple just released their 18.1, which you can get their AI functionality and playing with that. And again, it's just a tool to basically do those tedious tasks, I find, and that's what's really slick. Yeah. I didn't answer your question, but how I used it is similar to you. I used to actually be to you religiously. For me, growing up, communication has always been an issue. A little dyslexic. There's so much going on up in my head that I was never able to translate properly out into English properly. And what Chagibiti really gave me the confidence is that, because as you know, in our industry, communication needs to be perfect. And if communications loss projects can go south very quickly, especially in CA, when we get to that. But Chagibiti really helps, I found, communicate effectively what I'm trying to get across without bringing my emotions or anything into it. It's always a very clear, direct communication tool. And it works almost the same way as me and my husband have been rewatching Mad Men. Oh, cool. And thank God society has changed so much as it has. But it is interesting to start seeing how, even as an architecture firm back in the nowadays, you would have probably two secretaries underneath you, women often typing up all of our emails, all our memos that would all be done by hand. But now Chagibiti works like a little secretary. And I don't, and it doesn't judge you or anything. It's quite nice. That's right. And it is a high stakes profession. It's not always, you know, rows of rainbows and everything. So I really like Chagibiti. You can write the email that you want, right? Of how angry you are. And then Chagibiti will always make it a professional email. So you don't waste any time. You can just vent and get it out and then Chagibiti will clean it up. And you can still, you're not wasting any time. It still gets sent. There's a good Apple commercial based on like the same thing where it's like this guy is upset because as he loses his pudding, someone takes it from the office fridge, right? And then he types and is very angry and he does it and then he sends it. And then she comes back, goes very well written, Dale, or drops it off. It's a good one to check out. Yeah. So in my business, I've actually disintegrated almost to a lot, all the communications that lead to the office I've bought and Chagibiti for everybody. Yes. So they can process their emails through. It's really helps staff who English is their second language. It just really makes sure that everything is communicated effectively. But it's also good to bounce ideas off of. And like you said, like you can show notes and stuff. I really do find a lot. But a lot of people are exploring it in other ways, which is the visualization and stuff. Right. Which is kind of the next stage of exploring, but I'm still not convinced. The AI is here to take over a technologist position, for example, where I can always design something better at this stage. So two, I'll give you that I saw one at AIA Aspire. And speaking of conferences, that's one I think you would like. It's an Asheville every year. Unfortunately, like we went to the conference and then a week later, the Asheville got flooded right with North Carolina and all the hurricanes. But the downtown was secure. It was kind of the surrounding unfortunate. But what a cool conference. I'm pretty sure I'll be there next year in full force. But yeah, you go from place to place. Really neat. But one of the talks was about Finch 3D. And this is basically take a simple open plan and it works really great for multi-res. Because you have your perimeter, you have your core, and you can just basically play with a slider. And it's really scary because it was like, am I being in this case? It's like, am I being replaced? Are you going to have this someone, someone taken advantage of? But again, that's where I think if, like you said it yourself, you can utilize it, manage it, and really play with it. And if it helps you get to that step further to get those conversations started, but you're still a professional, you're still the architect, you're the creative juices behind it to kind of make the vision and tailor it to what the client actually is telling you who's the audience. I like the visualization side of things for clients as well. Them kind of playing with ideas and sending it to you. It's always a nice kind of starting point for like, say for a house or something. Because they can play with chat with VT2. But like you said, even though Finch, just looking at how it runs a room and stuff, it's just using an algorithm, but it takes an architect to visualize themselves walking through the space. And that's why you can't replace the human. AI is always going to be the interface between our immense amount of data that we have available these days and us. And I think people seem to remember that there's always going to be human involved as our employee with these tools. Oh, 100%. Because the other one, like I saw, was BluePren AI. And again, it was more of like a code checker, which again, I'm skeptical about that one. It might work. Maybe it will pick up some dumb stuff like limited exposure and all that kind of stuff. And you're dead in corridors. Maybe it would pick it up, but you don't want to get used to the crutch. And then you're not doing your duty. It's a fine line where some of that comes into play. But again, maybe it is useful. Maybe it is picking up and it picks up one thing that you totally saw because you were tired or anyways. The biggest problem with AI, and it's already happening, is development companies are using this as an-- I can see where it's going to go or the users as an excuse not to pay us as much. And that really is kind of the future of this profession with a lot of architects having to-- well, specifically when I started this firm, is what value do architects bring? And it's amazing how many people don't know what we've been doing. They just see us as a gatekeeper rather than someone who actually helps them through the project. And I do think that's where the profession really needs to start changing the image almost immediately. Just because AI is there to write something for you or something that doesn't mean it takes away the funded value you already put into it. And same with the liability that I have to hold. It doesn't matter if the AI does it. I still have legally responsible or financial responsible for it. Exactly. And I think that will be coming the next decade or so. There will be a lot of conversations around copyright, all that kind of stuff. Dealing with who owns the copyright is already kind of a big question right now. And with the book industry specifically. Because you can come out a book very fast as a chat to BT if you really wanted to. Exactly. But who owns it? Does it open AI on it? Or do you own it? And there's conversation we're going to have to start having with AI. I think it'll be if I-- artists versus technology kind of thing. 100%. No, I agree. That's a good thing. How it utilizes and it can write it. And where is it pulling from? I did a couple Halloween images of construction site and everything. And you can see where-- it did fantastic. It literally took 30 seconds. But you can see where it's starting to piece some of the images together. And you're right. Someone worked their heart and soul on that. And now they're not getting paid for that. So the graphic community is a different world. Well, unfortunately for them, it's going to be-- I think the graphic design industry is going to have a real tough time with AI. I think unfortunately that industry might have to change considerably. Because Adobe and stuff, they're creating things that are such a fast-- normally we have more time to adapt to technology. But AI is even transforming so much so fast that we can't even keep up. And a lot of the big benefits being small is I can change immediately. I can change it like that. We can experiment with your technology. But a lot of these older firms with the old guard there, they're still hand drawing. They're still doing the 2D. And it's even hard to convince them to even go to 3D. So architects really have to start stepping up and get on board with the technology, but not lose the craft design at the same time. It's a delicate balance. That's going to be the future. No, I agree. So I want to shift back to what you were talking about earlier about housing and stuff. And one thing that has definitely been a hot topic on LinkedIn, and I've been enjoying each of your posts, is the Canadian government has released the standardized housing design catalog. I've taken a look at this. A lot of others, high level thoughts. Is it the right way? Is it going to help us build cheaper buildings? Where is it? High my thoughts. The easy answer is no. It will not reduce costs because the designers, consultants, aren't really the cost drivers across Canada. It's the municipal governments and their fees. I've seen ridiculous increases of like 200, some cities are charging. It's almost like a 20% increase. And the construction cost is just fees. And I think, even if you just look at it from a copyright kind of thing, most human beings don't want to live in a copy paste box. And we've already kind of seen that. There's a really famous architect here in Vancouver called the Vancouver Special. We built the Met Nauseam in the 70s to deal with the immigration of Chinese and Vietnam refugees. We built them copy paste all through East Vancouver. And when you go through these neighborhoods, they just don't have any of the charm or the soul of Mount Pleasant or West Vancouver. And it's because we're treating homes like a consumer product like an iPhone. And I think you can't solve a consumer's problem with more consumerism. And I really don't think this copy paste thing is going to work. Just from copyright and like a soul level, it's not good. But even so, every single site is different. And the first basis point any architect will tell you if they're good will be the site is first and the architecture is responding to the site. It's not vice versa. And this, of course, is very government solution. We'll just have one kind of home from the catalog across the whole country. But I believe we have setting climate zones to this country. There's 3500 municipalities with all their own city bylaws. They all have their own restrictions. They all have their own setbacks, all this stuff. And how is the federal government supposed to shut this down the throat of every municipal government? Which is creatures of the province anyway. So it goes against the mandate of the federal government here anyway. Exactly. And that's what I was going to say. The way that the message is coming across is that, like you said, you can buy this plant, drop it in, start construction tomorrow. And it's like, hold on. It still needs to go through permanent. It still has to go to the city because like you said, every site's different. They got to do their zoning bylaw check. Does it even meet? You've got limiting distances issues and all that. Same thing with here in Chilliwack, BC. I know they've got the 12 minute response time. So certain areas of Chilliwack, your limiting distance gets reduced by half if you're not sprinkling. Yeah. And you're hiring and you have to hire consultants to fix it. Exactly. So you're going to pay us anyway. And it's actually sometimes harder to work with an existing plant that is just to do one custom for you. And when you're spending one to $2 million on a build, are you going to want a cookie cutter plan? No. So you're going to want to customize host to your family and your soul. That's why we believe in LA. The tagline is vessels for the soul because I'm really here to capture you. And a lot of clients don't even understand what they want. Most people don't even know what they want in a home because they don't have the language. They don't have a lot of the know with all to know what goes behind the walls, what goes into the plumbing and what goes into the structure. We are trained for years to study people's habits and how they go through a space. Not just that, but a huge thing here is resale. And even though it's your dream home, the clients still think about resale. So it then means that it has to be generally appealable to everybody. And it takes a lot of observation and intuition to really know what that is. And you can't replicate intuition as much as the government would want it to have. Well, exactly. And I think when some of these get started to be constructed, even if someone went ahead with this and did it and they went through the city and whatever, let's just pretend that always worked the way they're pitching it. There's still going to be those changes on site. And there is going to be that contract administration to some extent. It's not as intensive of anything, the other type of jobs that we do, but it's still going to be involved. And yeah, like I said, how do you tailor it to everyone's like, I looked at the plans and I went, this wouldn't suit me. Where do you put Christmas? Yeah. Well, Christmas band, do we know? Yeah, exactly. So maybe a minimalist, Charlie Brown tree in the house. I don't know. But it is interesting. But all those little things. It is interesting because a lot of Vancouver used to be so strict on trees, for example. This is the hardest city to get anything built in. And it comes from municipal regulation. And my theory of a non-expertist at all is like, I really do think that governments have really obfuscated their responsibility and infrastructure. And I would much rather see a lot more money going into infrastructure spending so that the cities don't feel the need to then tax people so much on development fees and stuff to pay for the infrastructure. And it's really this vicious cycle where most development that's happening in lower mainland is all the infrastructure that's being paid for by the developers through the DCL fees. And that's supposed to be a government responsibility. It's not supposed to be development responsibility to deal with it. So I do think we should be looking at it a lot more differently of how the government can be responsible. But it's not going to be these west-side spitzel plans. It happens if there's a tree in the middle of your lot and you want to save the tree, you can't make your lots done. Yeah, exactly. No, I don't resent. So switching gears to CA, that's kind of what this podcast is about. What are you finding today's big challenges out there? Again, even the developers facing all that cost. In the end, you guys are getting squeezed down to the point where there's no much. They don't want to spend money in CA. But the thing is, you're obligated to do it. Yeah. Well, we tell-- I'm still quite young in my career as well. So I can only go off of what I've experienced. And for most of our techs, all we really care about is mitigating liability and getting sued. That's what I think about every time I'm on site. But I can only really tell you one way is that we've been trying to prevent issues. And that's communication again. And how we do things a little differently is bringing the contractor in at the very beginning. So as soon as I sign a client, I give the client options to choose their contractor immediately. And in CA, the biggest problem that comes up is normally just things missed. Things not seen. And there's a lot of pressure on architects to know everything, catch everything. But we're all human. And we should just accept the fact that you're going to miss things. We all miss things. And the more odds that are on a project at the early design stage will prevent CA from being a nightmare. That's right. And that's just the easiest thing to do. So I find one, having open communication, which has to be T, you can use it to have open communication between all parties. And the one thing that we do here that is a little different is all our drawings are for contractors first. Our drawings are not for us. And I feel many architects get very obsessed with their drawings. It represents their own personal identity. But drawings are supposed to be for contractors. And we always say here, can the most simplest person understand this? Can Granny understand this drawing kind of thing? And how can we make the drawing more clear? And that's always our strategy here is to make the details clear, not the way that things have been done. Right. And there's so many firms. I've seen a lot of drawings. I've worked for contractors before I started this business doing a lot of side work for contractors, doing their shop drawings, reviewing a lot of architects' work. And if I'm asking questions and I'm supposed to be trained in this, then how the hell is a contractor supposed to do it? Right. Exactly. And it's all perspective too. You see it one way and then they look at a different fresh perspective. But I like how you said bringing them in early on. And I guess that's where a design build process can go. But there was a neat thing that came up at the CSI National in Houston last month for me. And they're joking of this was a spec software, right? And they had stickers that said no RFIs. And I chuckled. I'm like, that's not a reality. But the way they're like, well, this is how they were doing it. They were kind of doing a similar approach working with you. You as the architect working with the builder, and they had their specs in this online platform where they had their subs coming into it and starting to ask the RFIs during that design stage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, what do you mean by this? What do you mean by this? And then they started making all those changes. And then when it was like, okay, this is perfect, we're good, we're ready to get going and building this. They already vetted out the drawings, they vetted out the specs. And there wasn't any confusion. And it was kind of, that's a neat approach. It's good to, I'm very like, blessing and curious, but I'm very honest with clients, a little too much sometimes where it is allowing a contractor in to, and like letting them all know the process. And from a business owner, the best thing of being an owner is I finally understand how an owner feels. And for decision makers, all we really want to know is the spectrum of what's the worst case scenario, what's the best case. And then you will always just end up in the middle of somewhere. But I always overemphasize the negative of what could go wrong. So it's in their mind already. So having a contractor at the very beginning, it starts identifying all the problems early before we even get to pricing. And that's why CA is a lot about mitigating cost differences. And that's where the lawsuits occur. So if you've green all the eyeballs at the beginning, there's no excuses for the contractor to miss anything or anything like that. Even if we're doing a traditional bidding process, I still ask the client if they want to bring a contractor in as a pre-construction agreement. Because they're still contractors and I still, I know I might shoot on this, but the contractors are the building experts, not artics. Because they're the construction experts. Sorry, construction experts. They know the trades, they know how it gets constructed. They roll their eyes at us all the time. And it's because we spend far too much time in an office. We're not on site. And all of those details you draw all day, you can be drawing it, but do you even know what you're drawing? And I saw we had a contractor residing on our project. And for the first time I was on site to actually see bug screen. Because we always show it as a block. I could see a solid block on our drawings, but it's not that at all in person. It's a piece of fabric that sits at the bottom. And it's interesting to see it in person because you're like, oh, nothing like the detail. Well, exactly. And I've done a ton of home rentals myself. So my last house and everything, I revitized it, I drew all the millwork. And it was good even too. You're like, oh, how am I going to turn the crown molding into this non piece of mill? I knew you went through it. So anyways, you did all the drawings. You're like, these are awesome drawings. You print it out, you get there the table saw and you're like, where's that dimension? So you run back to the reader like, oh yeah, it's the sun. Then you do it. And then you're like, how am I putting this together? It's definitely, you're right. It's one thing to look at and draw the detail. But when you physically get there, like same thing, like take a typical window detail, right? You're like the 10 processes from peel and stick and everything. You draw all these things, you see it every single day. But if you go to anyone, even yourself and just go, all right, go frame the window. I can frame it. Okay, good. How do you do the peeled stick? So it's an art, it's a craft. And that's, you know, we're definitely losing trades, you know, every year as we keep progressing, which is unfortunate. Like, yeah, quality is matter. And you're like you said, working with them key. Yeah, well, we used to really remember like, what was the relationship like? And it used, if I always went to cathedrals kind of times, and it was the master builder, stone mason and the architect, those were the two people building the cathedral. And if they weren't together, then nothing gets done. And it is that relationship of the master mason and the architect together. And it's so different from today. I don't know why architects all of a sudden, there's so much animosity between contractors and architects these days. And my, my whole goal when I started this firm was to heal that and bring the contractors in and remove all the ego. Because I know I know nothing. At the end of the day, like, to build the skyscraper behind me, like there's so much to know. And some someone from LinkedIn put a good way, which architects were supposed to know an ocean wide and an inch deep about construction. And often compare us to conductors where like, you need to know how every instrument works, but you can't play every instrument. And it's the same thing. And it's, it's just having the humility to talk to contractors. They know what they're doing a lot of the time, there is some bad ones out there. But over the career, you'll start you start finding the ones that know what they're doing. And everyone's just stopping so scared of liability all the time. Because if the communication is open, there's not going to be a problem later. And like, that's what I really, really discovered. And it's just coming down to psychology and human behavior. We all just want clarity, and we all want certainty, but it requires conversation early. Specifically in CA. Well said, well said. And like looking back to like when you do a lot of schoolwork, right? And when we kind of grafted up the old like we're doing like a renovation to like Langley's secondary or something like that. Well, it was like 12 drawings or whatever, like 20 drawings. And yet everything that we draw today is like almost 150 pages. And we put our little disclaimer in the front for contractors, confirm everything. You're not feeling these drawings. But they're going to miss it. We have to just realize that architects come from white collar, privileged background. And it's usually blue collar trades on site. And there has to be a coming together of the two. And there can't be this elitist mindset anymore. And that makes me because I'm from a military family. But I do find I learned so much more from contractors than I've ever learned from another architect. One percent. There's ones. Yeah. That's why I love heritage buildings as well. Because there's a lot of lost knowledge in heritage work and actually listening to the trades actually have to work with relearning a lot of the techniques that were from the past and financially fascinating. There is a craft, like I said, that is where the attention to detail really does matter. How do you tie into this? How do you maintain that history there? But this is where you've been so humble to the contractor, but this is where you come in as the architect and say, this is good, but I really want to maintain it and do these attention to details. And like you said, between that synergy and that communication, that's where I get all jazzed up and real excited because that's where the project becomes the beautiful thing that it is and the team environment. Yeah. And we can't forget about the client in the triangle as well. So yes, they're there too. Yeah. Because we have to realize the power that we have as architects is that we could completely derail and many do derail projects by being so hard on the trades and stuff, or like redo this because it doesn't meet my standards. But as long as the communication is also open with the client, and I have a very firm role with the contractor is we always go with solutions, not problems. And I do joke that architects are very much like architectural therapists because when you're spending millions of dollars, it's the most it's so anxiety inducing that, specifically with homeowners, I find they're anxious as hell. And my job is really to guide them through like a doula to birth their house. And it's a very challenging project. So as a it's the most anxiety is the highest. And a lot of people don't realize this is that last week, is how they're going to remember that project forever, and how all of what you did before, doesn't really matter. It's that last week of how how easy was the transition for them to actually close the project off and everything. But I find that's the hardest part is that last, that last little stint. Yeah, no, absolutely. So here's the question. If someone needs therapy, or they want to just hire you to because you're an awesome architect, where do they find you? Where can they connect with you? Longfreearchitecture.ca is our website, I can reach us out on there. I have a constantly always posted on LinkedIn, as you said, I think you can find me David Longfree, I don't know my handle is Longfree architecture as well, pretty simple. And then yeah, maybe future podcasts with Matt here or other other places. But if you absolutely we do specialize in a lot of multiplex and game of heritage certificate coming up. So if you got if I'm always interested in exploring these two type of typologies, and thank you. No, so cool. Well, thank you for being so part of it. Yeah, so we can get this one in person. But, hey, there's a ton of 2025 events coming up. One of them is being build x. In all, we will have to celebrate our one year anniversary. I think it's appropriate. But absolutely no, thank you. And then of course, last, you know, but at least, David architects keep designing and those contractors keep making those plans reality. We'll see you guys on the next one.